A sad, lonely, and corrupt worldview shared by espionage agents, too many CEOs, and the worst criminals. They consider "straights" to be suckers and themselves to be pragmatic, street-smart exploiters of others' idealistic naivete. He reveals his distorted assumptions early by implicitly equating secrecy with deceit, thereby making manipulation and mendacity legitimate responses. Since there are legitimate, sincere reasons to keep secrets, his whole argument fails.
I am very disappointed Big Think seems to endorse this corrosive position.
I'm not so sure Big Think is endorsing this position, Tony. It's sharing how the CIA approaches secrets in a government context. Yes, it's pitched to us civilians to look at the world the same way but outside of business, perhaps, I don't see most people pursuing this approach to interactions.
Tony, I agree, which is why I posted a counterargument. I hope you get a chance to read it, and I hope you have a more favorable opinion of my position.
👎🏻There are wisdoms and knowledge far beyond this dark and evil perspective that never passes away. The CIA must be wise to the way of snakes but not be a snake. Snakes eventually crawl into darkness, but the light is forever. As you are fair, so fairness comes back to you, sometimes double, sometimes 10 or 100 fold. What society and hierarchy are you working toward, a lower or higher one?
Worst big think ever. I’ll stay stupid I guess and enjoy sharing my windfalls with others; not always striving for more and being super content with my simple life. I see that those who follow this speakers type of thinking seem never to be happy as they’re always in a war mentality trying to take more from others. Money and power worship is so dull and sad.
Very dark picture of humanity, basically, dog eat dog, competition above cooperation.
There is plentiful evidence to support cooperation based on fairness to be a reason why man has progressed this far. True, there seems to be a place for competition, but the 'selfish gene' only exists through a corresponding reliance on support to become that selfish gene.
The main question is, what should humanity work towards to ensure an egalitarian society; surely it's not by claiming the world is not fair to me!
Why is it writers like this never acknowledge the better aspects of humanity like empathy and compassion. In these people's minds bearing witness to suffering and injustice is for suckered and fools. It's all about the currency of self. Sad.
PSYCHOANALYSIS IS TOO ACCURATE A SCIENCE TO IGNORE
As an amateur psychoanalyst, I’ve come to see how deeply useful Freudian theory remains when trying to understand someone in the midst of a mental health crisis. But contrary to what many believe, Freud didn’t claim that love was the universal cure—he recognized that much of human suffering stemmed from poverty, instability, and deprivation. His writings show that the roots of neurosis are often economic. Freud may have believed capital was scarce, but today, we have the means to challenge that scarcity—perhaps even with initiatives like the Money from Space campaign.
Psychoanalysis—the science of the mind—asks: why do people do what they do? It tells us that nearly all human behavior is driven by three survival-oriented needs:
Power
Sexual gratification
Security from death
Because these drives are fundamental to survival, they manifest in every major decision, act, or identity. Recognizing these motivations can help us reform our institutions—especially our prisons.
A PROPOSAL: REPLACE PRISONS WITH PSYCHOANALYTIC REFORM SCHOOLS
Today, incarceration is often little more than state-sanctioned punishment—arguably a form of modern torture. For violent offenders and law violators, society wants them off the streets—but must that mean we throw them into trauma-inducing environments? There is a better path.
Let us convert prisons into Psychoanalytic Reform Schools—places of healing, reflection, and restructuring of the inner life. In these schools, we could start with three foundational texts:
Basic Principles of Psychoanalysis by A.A. Brill (1949) – Freud’s close friend and America’s first psychiatrist.
History of Psychoanalysis by André Tridon (1919) – a rich chronicle of the birth of this field.
Psychoanalysis and Civilization by Paul Rosenfeld (1962) – exploring how inner conflict shapes society.
These schools would still keep dangerous individuals separated from the public, satisfying public safety concerns—but they would also offer a humane, scientific alternative to cycles of punishment and recidivism.
A NOTE FOR THE FUTURE: WOMEN, PRISONS, AND MEDIA
Women have been disproportionately affected by the rise in incarceration. Between 1980 and 2019, the number of incarcerated women in the U.S. increased by over 700%. This demands our attention. Maybe it's time for an updated cultural response—something like a 2022 remake of the classic Within These Walls, but with a sharper psychological lens, addressing the unique traumas women face behind bars.
And perhaps, just maybe, some of these conditions stem from what I call "Organized Nudity"—the exposure of vulnerability in a culture obsessed with surveillance, body image, and control. Hygiene, for instance, can feel empowering to some, and disempowering to others, depending on how it's enforced or expected. As one woman recently reflected, learning hygiene felt like an accomplishment—but for others, especially in environments where control is weaponized, it can feel like just another system of domination.
FINAL THOUGHT
In light of the CIA's concept of the economy of secrets, as outlined by Andrew Bustamante, we might add one more layer: the unconscious, too, contains secrets—those we keep even from ourselves. While the CIA manipulates secrets to gain geopolitical power, psychoanalysis seeks to uncover secrets to heal. Both operate on the principle that knowledge is leverage—but only one does so with the goal of liberation.
When reading something like this I invariably think of the exchange between Ellie Arroway and David Drumlin in the 1997 movie Contact, based on Carl Sagan’s novel. The exchange follows a meeting in which Drumlin used Ellie’s agnosticism about God’s existence against her even though he shared it:
“- David Drumlin: "I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that’s an understatement. What you don’t know is, I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world."
- Ellie Arroway: "Funny, I've always believed that the world is what we make of it.”
It’s funny isn’t it ? Let’s reveal the secret about secrets !
I sent for the book ‘ Dark Matter ‘ recently in an effort to find the phrase
‘ the moves behind the moves behind the moves ‘, a phrase i picked up decades ago that has been one of the ways I always thought governments, and corporations acted.
The moves behind the moves behind the moves ugh.
All that kind of shit has little to do with my own inclinations toward
I suppose that it isn't surprising that the CIA would think like this, especially when one considers that it is the product of a very individualistic culture, but it is deeply mistaken. Homo Sapiens succeeded in evolutionary terms because of its ability to cooperate, not just in small groups, like a wolf pack, but between millions or even billions of people. (https://fs.blog/yuval-noah-harari-dominate-earth/) This cooperation depends deeply on the concept of fairness. If fairness is absent, so is cooperation. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s44159-024-00364-3) Certainly, mainly people have the desire, need even, to succeed in society, and some don't care who they trample in their rush. But that is destructive for humanity as whole, partly because it threatens fairness, and may well lead to our extinction, as we try to overcome climate change, pollution, and our aggressive impulses. (https://press.un.org/en/2021/sc14445.doc.htm)
The real world is not a nice place. Some here have decried the dystopian worldview expressed here but it is quite realistic. From trivial gossip to military intelligence, there is always a competition at some level in managing the information you want or need to protect. I did not see this as an endorsement of deceit or mendacity, but an explanation of how the management of information in the real world operates. Actually you can learn from this as a way to protect yourself from divulging that which you want to protect.
Please Shut Up and Big Think is political conservative Project 2025 supporter now? Two wrongs never make anything right and yes - we all know the world is not always fair but regardless of violent power players including the CIA - humans are more often fair to each other locally. Yes - there are bullies in the world but no CIA agent is going to stand on a soap box and preach to me who is and is not a terrorist - based on their support of dictators who crush Democracy all around the world in the past and currently - as long as America’s self interests aka $$$ big business dealings of the rich are kept in tact and in our favor. I do trust WW1 era 4 star Marine General Smedly Butler who also helped to foil the last autocratic corporate 1% take over attempt of the USA during the FDR era and who once honestly and bravely said that wars are rackets for the rich and our military is used/exploited to uphold their creepy gangster like business dealings regardless of whether or not they are doing ‘fair’ deals. It amazes me when a person of color like this gentleman either is ignorant of or worse - just sells his soul to the white mafia (CIA) who do not have his best interests at the core of their mission to rule the world.
I can see most of the comments find this article repulsive yet it's an interesting insider view to how the US government defines secrets and operates in pursuit and concealment of them. Yes, agreed, trying to apply this to everyday life isn't practical or preferable (for most of us). This piece, however, was informational and educational.
A sad, lonely, and corrupt worldview shared by espionage agents, too many CEOs, and the worst criminals. They consider "straights" to be suckers and themselves to be pragmatic, street-smart exploiters of others' idealistic naivete. He reveals his distorted assumptions early by implicitly equating secrecy with deceit, thereby making manipulation and mendacity legitimate responses. Since there are legitimate, sincere reasons to keep secrets, his whole argument fails.
I am very disappointed Big Think seems to endorse this corrosive position.
I'm not so sure Big Think is endorsing this position, Tony. It's sharing how the CIA approaches secrets in a government context. Yes, it's pitched to us civilians to look at the world the same way but outside of business, perhaps, I don't see most people pursuing this approach to interactions.
Tony, I agree, which is why I posted a counterargument. I hope you get a chance to read it, and I hope you have a more favorable opinion of my position.
👎🏻There are wisdoms and knowledge far beyond this dark and evil perspective that never passes away. The CIA must be wise to the way of snakes but not be a snake. Snakes eventually crawl into darkness, but the light is forever. As you are fair, so fairness comes back to you, sometimes double, sometimes 10 or 100 fold. What society and hierarchy are you working toward, a lower or higher one?
But does not our own president think of us as suckers and losers who "won't even notice"?
Best to be forewarned and forearmed on the battlefield of ideas.
In the wise words of Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900), "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
I’m not certain this is “fair” to snakes.
Worst big think ever. I’ll stay stupid I guess and enjoy sharing my windfalls with others; not always striving for more and being super content with my simple life. I see that those who follow this speakers type of thinking seem never to be happy as they’re always in a war mentality trying to take more from others. Money and power worship is so dull and sad.
Very dark picture of humanity, basically, dog eat dog, competition above cooperation.
There is plentiful evidence to support cooperation based on fairness to be a reason why man has progressed this far. True, there seems to be a place for competition, but the 'selfish gene' only exists through a corresponding reliance on support to become that selfish gene.
The main question is, what should humanity work towards to ensure an egalitarian society; surely it's not by claiming the world is not fair to me!
Appalling exploitative, zero-sum worldview. Who is this “lecture” for? The CIA etc. operates this way, so should our children too?
Deeply concerning that Big think supports seducing people into this behaviour.
Useful content to share. I believe that we all practice this, perhaps unconsciously, in our daily discourse.
I see nothing inherently evil in this.
Information is a tool. What you do with that tool determines whether it's an evil, or innocent, act.
Why is it writers like this never acknowledge the better aspects of humanity like empathy and compassion. In these people's minds bearing witness to suffering and injustice is for suckered and fools. It's all about the currency of self. Sad.
PSYCHOANALYSIS IS TOO ACCURATE A SCIENCE TO IGNORE
As an amateur psychoanalyst, I’ve come to see how deeply useful Freudian theory remains when trying to understand someone in the midst of a mental health crisis. But contrary to what many believe, Freud didn’t claim that love was the universal cure—he recognized that much of human suffering stemmed from poverty, instability, and deprivation. His writings show that the roots of neurosis are often economic. Freud may have believed capital was scarce, but today, we have the means to challenge that scarcity—perhaps even with initiatives like the Money from Space campaign.
Psychoanalysis—the science of the mind—asks: why do people do what they do? It tells us that nearly all human behavior is driven by three survival-oriented needs:
Power
Sexual gratification
Security from death
Because these drives are fundamental to survival, they manifest in every major decision, act, or identity. Recognizing these motivations can help us reform our institutions—especially our prisons.
A PROPOSAL: REPLACE PRISONS WITH PSYCHOANALYTIC REFORM SCHOOLS
Today, incarceration is often little more than state-sanctioned punishment—arguably a form of modern torture. For violent offenders and law violators, society wants them off the streets—but must that mean we throw them into trauma-inducing environments? There is a better path.
Let us convert prisons into Psychoanalytic Reform Schools—places of healing, reflection, and restructuring of the inner life. In these schools, we could start with three foundational texts:
Basic Principles of Psychoanalysis by A.A. Brill (1949) – Freud’s close friend and America’s first psychiatrist.
History of Psychoanalysis by André Tridon (1919) – a rich chronicle of the birth of this field.
Psychoanalysis and Civilization by Paul Rosenfeld (1962) – exploring how inner conflict shapes society.
These schools would still keep dangerous individuals separated from the public, satisfying public safety concerns—but they would also offer a humane, scientific alternative to cycles of punishment and recidivism.
A NOTE FOR THE FUTURE: WOMEN, PRISONS, AND MEDIA
Women have been disproportionately affected by the rise in incarceration. Between 1980 and 2019, the number of incarcerated women in the U.S. increased by over 700%. This demands our attention. Maybe it's time for an updated cultural response—something like a 2022 remake of the classic Within These Walls, but with a sharper psychological lens, addressing the unique traumas women face behind bars.
And perhaps, just maybe, some of these conditions stem from what I call "Organized Nudity"—the exposure of vulnerability in a culture obsessed with surveillance, body image, and control. Hygiene, for instance, can feel empowering to some, and disempowering to others, depending on how it's enforced or expected. As one woman recently reflected, learning hygiene felt like an accomplishment—but for others, especially in environments where control is weaponized, it can feel like just another system of domination.
FINAL THOUGHT
In light of the CIA's concept of the economy of secrets, as outlined by Andrew Bustamante, we might add one more layer: the unconscious, too, contains secrets—those we keep even from ourselves. While the CIA manipulates secrets to gain geopolitical power, psychoanalysis seeks to uncover secrets to heal. Both operate on the principle that knowledge is leverage—but only one does so with the goal of liberation.
So he wandered past his normal format. He was grappling with a number of choices re: outlook.
Good talking but I hope it has a good purpose
When reading something like this I invariably think of the exchange between Ellie Arroway and David Drumlin in the 1997 movie Contact, based on Carl Sagan’s novel. The exchange follows a meeting in which Drumlin used Ellie’s agnosticism about God’s existence against her even though he shared it:
“- David Drumlin: "I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that’s an understatement. What you don’t know is, I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world."
- Ellie Arroway: "Funny, I've always believed that the world is what we make of it.”
Ugh ! But I appreciate the talk.
It’s funny isn’t it ? Let’s reveal the secret about secrets !
I sent for the book ‘ Dark Matter ‘ recently in an effort to find the phrase
‘ the moves behind the moves behind the moves ‘, a phrase i picked up decades ago that has been one of the ways I always thought governments, and corporations acted.
The moves behind the moves behind the moves ugh.
All that kind of shit has little to do with my own inclinations toward
highest spiritual truths.
I suppose that it isn't surprising that the CIA would think like this, especially when one considers that it is the product of a very individualistic culture, but it is deeply mistaken. Homo Sapiens succeeded in evolutionary terms because of its ability to cooperate, not just in small groups, like a wolf pack, but between millions or even billions of people. (https://fs.blog/yuval-noah-harari-dominate-earth/) This cooperation depends deeply on the concept of fairness. If fairness is absent, so is cooperation. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s44159-024-00364-3) Certainly, mainly people have the desire, need even, to succeed in society, and some don't care who they trample in their rush. But that is destructive for humanity as whole, partly because it threatens fairness, and may well lead to our extinction, as we try to overcome climate change, pollution, and our aggressive impulses. (https://press.un.org/en/2021/sc14445.doc.htm)
The real world is not a nice place. Some here have decried the dystopian worldview expressed here but it is quite realistic. From trivial gossip to military intelligence, there is always a competition at some level in managing the information you want or need to protect. I did not see this as an endorsement of deceit or mendacity, but an explanation of how the management of information in the real world operates. Actually you can learn from this as a way to protect yourself from divulging that which you want to protect.
Please Shut Up and Big Think is political conservative Project 2025 supporter now? Two wrongs never make anything right and yes - we all know the world is not always fair but regardless of violent power players including the CIA - humans are more often fair to each other locally. Yes - there are bullies in the world but no CIA agent is going to stand on a soap box and preach to me who is and is not a terrorist - based on their support of dictators who crush Democracy all around the world in the past and currently - as long as America’s self interests aka $$$ big business dealings of the rich are kept in tact and in our favor. I do trust WW1 era 4 star Marine General Smedly Butler who also helped to foil the last autocratic corporate 1% take over attempt of the USA during the FDR era and who once honestly and bravely said that wars are rackets for the rich and our military is used/exploited to uphold their creepy gangster like business dealings regardless of whether or not they are doing ‘fair’ deals. It amazes me when a person of color like this gentleman either is ignorant of or worse - just sells his soul to the white mafia (CIA) who do not have his best interests at the core of their mission to rule the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
I can see most of the comments find this article repulsive yet it's an interesting insider view to how the US government defines secrets and operates in pursuit and concealment of them. Yes, agreed, trying to apply this to everyday life isn't practical or preferable (for most of us). This piece, however, was informational and educational.
Thanks, Andrew, quite timely actually. Now could you ask your former associates to leave me alone please?